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Erin Davis: Welcome to REAL TIME, the podcast for, and about REALTORS®, brought to you by CREA, the Canadian Real Estate Association. I’m your host, Erin Davis, and episode 38 of REAL TIME promises to be a fun and fascinating discussion. We think you’re going to find yourself nodding in agreement, maybe going, “Huh, I never thought of that,” and just enjoying a great chat with two very interesting members of your own Canadian REALTOR® community. That community includes more than 160,000 real estate agents, brokers, and salespeople.

Now on this episode, we get up close and personal with two of them. If you or someone you know is curious as to how to start, grow, and/or sustain a successful career in real estate, there’s a lot to learn from the people immersed in the profession. First up, James Mabey and Chris Peters reflect on how they got their start. Here we go.

Well, it’s so good to have you both here on REAL TIME and we’re going to start with a quick round of introductions. Chris, we will go geographically, start at the east and begin with you. Go ahead.

Chris Peters: Excellent. My name is Chris Peters. I live currently in Halifax. I’m originally from Toronto. I’ve been licensed since 2011. I have been married for 20 years, this year actually it will be. I’ve got two fantastic boys, 14 and 18 years old.

Erin: Wonderful. James, we’re heading west now. There you are in Edmonton.

James Mabey: My name is James Mabey. I am the chair-elect for the Canadian Real Estate Association, but I’m a broker-owner and my husband and I, along with our miniature dachshund RuPaul, live in St. Albert, Alberta. I’ve been licensed since 2005. I’ve been a broker since 2007 and we have four offices in the Greater Edmonton area.

Erin: Okay. Now, since this episode is all about getting your start as a REALTOR®, first off, James, what drew you to the profession?

James: You know what? I am a second-generation REALTOR® and that is both a blessing and a curse, I must say, sometimes. I watched my mom work in real estate while I was finishing off my high school years and so I saw the number of dinners and family events that she, unfortunately, sometimes couldn’t attend or had to run out from, so at least I knew what I was in for, but there was just so much opportunity. When I finished my Bachelor of Commerce at McGill in Montreal, and had decided to move back to Alberta, I just called up my mom one day and I said, “Well, how about we work together?” She was very enthusiastic. That’s how I got here.

Erin: Had there always been signs that you might head into the direction that your mom was, and did she encourage you at any point when you were growing up saying, “You should see how this all works”?

James: It was quite a shock, I think, to her. They knew I was coming back to Alberta. Family was super important to me and so moving back home, that was a default conclusion. I think she’d always seen me as a bit of an entrepreneur, somebody who would run my own business so I guess from that perspective, not a surprise. It wasn’t something she thought was in the cards.

Erin: What did her life, and your family’s life, show you that made it attractive to you?

James: She loved the business. She was very casual with clients but very knowledgeable. When she sat down with people, she was really able to help them with something that was significant, arguably one of the most important financial pieces of somebody’s life. Knowing that just the pride and energy she put into helping people with that, I thought that was something that was very exciting.

Erin: Now, Chris, you and I have a former employer in common and that is Rogers.

Chris: Yes.

Erin: You started back in telecommunication? This is a great story too.

Chris: I worked for Rogers in Toronto for almost 12 years, and then I got headhunted and recruited out to work out east with Eastlink doing something completely different in telecommunications and managing a national team. That was for about six years. I had always been interested in business ownership, as well as real estate. I remember having a conversation, shortly after my father had passed away, with my little sister about if you could do anything, what would you do? I said I wanted to get into real estate.

My dad, he owned four different Midas franchises in the Sudbury area and I always enjoyed that side of being a business owner. It’s not something that you see with young Black men too often and so that was something that he always inspired me with. At the same time, I was also very fearful. My wife at the time was a stay-at-home mom with our young son. To give up secure income, pension benefits, and everything that comes with being an employee was quite scary but at the same time, it was time for me to move on from working at Eastlink, take that leap of faith in myself, and get involved in real estate.

I’ve always enjoyed helping people and being part of people’s lives and doing what I can to assist where needed in my community and real estate seemed like it was the right time for me to get in, get my license, and get moving. My biggest regret, 12 years in now, is that I didn’t start soon enough, that I didn’t have that bit of confidence and drive to take that leap of faith sooner than what I did.

Erin: It’s never too late to start. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, and the next best time is today.

Chris: This is true.

Erin: Let’s talk about landing your first client. What was that experience like? I’ll go back to you, James, on this one.

James: I was a little bit nervous. I was doing an open house, a listing that my mother and business partner had, and a young couple walked in, not too much older than me, which was nice because there’s some built-in confidence there that comes with some similarities. I just started a great conversation with them and they really told me exactly what their goals were in terms of housing. The property seemed to be a good fit for that so shortly after that, I landed my first client and then I was writing my first deal. They got the house and it was just the best experience. The open houses, funny enough, sometimes the old ways are the good way.

Erin: Did your mom give you an ‘attaboy’ or was she surprised at all, or just proud?

James: I think she was proud. I brought home that paperwork and put it in front of her and then we had a glass of wine.

Erin: Wonderful. Chris, tell us about your first client.

Chris: I guess similar to James, the old ways are still the tried and true successful ways. Mine was when I started with my brokerage, mentor and friend of mine, Brad, encouraged me to go out door knocking, which is something I never thought I would end up doing. A gentleman invited us into his home because he was in the process of thinking about selling. He said, “Oh, Chris, you look familiar. You coach one of my sons in soccer.” He says, “You can come on in.”

Thankfully, what I thought was going to be Brad’s experience as a realtor was going to get us that first client, in fact, it was my experience in the community and coaching soccer that got us my first seller client. Then my first buyer client happened a few months later, and that was with a former colleague of mine at Eastlink. She was looking to move communities, so she needed to find a condo that was close by. Funny enough, I moved her into condos in Eastern Passage. That was cool.

Erin: From the stats you need to know to the insight, behind those numbers, CREA.ca has at its fingertips, and therefore yours, the experts to help it all make more sense as you look towards the future. Make it a habit to visit CREA.ca for news and views, blogs, and trends. It’s all there just for you. Now back to CREA board members, Chris Peters, REALTOR® and Atlantic Regional Director, and CREA chair-elect, James Mabey, a broker who manages four offices in the Edmonton area.

Now, you both have multi-dimensional careers and come from, as we’ve heard already, different professional and educational backgrounds. I’ll start with you, James. Did you have a vision of what you wanted your career to look like?

James: This is truly my first career. 23, coming into the business straight out of university, I was having some of my very first career experiences. I studied marketing and communications at McGill University and I was hoping to build my business using those skills. I thought that that was going to be my key to success. What I actually discovered was that the experience of moving across the country and having to reestablish groups of networks and friends and the actual experience of post-secondary education in a different part of the country was more of a contributor to my success because those skills of networking and becoming part of a new community were the actual foundation of my business, and remains so till today. I thought it was going to be one thing, but it turned out to be another.

Erin: It’s like you, Chris, changing lanes and going from telecommunications into real estate. Tell me what your vision was once you decided to take that leap of faith.

Chris: Honestly, I didn’t have a vision, initially. That probably is what allowed me to have a slow start at first, was because I didn’t properly have a vision. I just knew that this was something I could do. I figured that I had strong community connections and I would be able to rely on that. I had good people around me at my brokerage, strong training programs. I thought I knew what it meant to be a business owner just based on watching my dad with his businesses. Lo and behold that I learned that I didn’t know what it meant to be a business owner. Fortunately, I had great people around me and that really started impressing upon me the need to have a vision and the need to have goals because without them you’re going to be lost and you’re going to be wandering around aimlessly for a little bit.

James: That’s so important, Chris, that honesty is coming into it. Setting goals was something that people told me was really important. I didn’t necessarily take the time to really sit down and hone a strategy. It just luckily turned out that hard work is a strategy.

Chris: It is.

James: Now I set goals all the time and I encourage our REALTORS® not just set them, but actually use them as a tool and recalibrate their business as they go through the year based on internal and external factors. I’ve come to appreciate how much goal setting can really influence somebody’s business and help them to get to a faster start. At that time, thankfully, even though hope isn’t a strategy, hard work turned out to be.

Chris: Agreed.

Erin: Hope isn’t a strategy. Chris, you had a poli-sci background too. We’ve talked about James’ education in marketing and communication. Did your poli-sci help you out in this at all?

Chris: I would definitely say it did. For me a lot of it comes down to knowing how to talk to people, engaging, again, both on telecommunications and I think a lot of my prior work dealing with customer service, just building those relationships. For me, it’s all about the relationships and everything else is secondary because when you have faith and trust, it’s easy to get the like, but in order to get people to know and trust you, it’s about building those relationships. The political science part of it really was about engaging with different people and coming at things with an open mind and an open perspective and willing to try something new and try something different.

Erin: James, you’ve spoken about this, that you can be confident and you can get your clients to know you, like you, trust you, but you have talked too about the importance of having the skills to back those up. Can we talk about that a little bit?

James: For sure. You have to invest in yourself when you come into this business. You come through a licensing program, you are literally starting your own business. You will only be successful with that if you take the time to learn from the people around you. I felt very empowered because of the peers that were in my office and the people that I was taking cues from in terms of how to build a successful business. Knowing your numbers, understanding the neighborhoods, the actual tangible things that customers and clients are going to ask you about, you have to have those answers. If you don’t have those answers, you have to know where to find them. That’s just as important, I must say.

Take the time and make sure that those pieces of your success are resourced properly. Get the boards and associations that you’re a member of, use their resources, make sure that you take the time to take courses, earn accreditations or designations. Those are fundamentally going to be hugely important in terms of long-term and being able to stay in the business. To me, those are the most important factors.

Erin: Now, Chris, when it comes to know, like, and trust, you’ve got a whole different kind of networking right there in the bag on the field, on the pitch. That’s pretty amazing, the volunteering and being part of your community and allowing that to translate and then enhance your business. Tell us about your different kind of networking.

Chris: I always came at it from an organic perspective. I’ve always been a believer of: if you want your voice to be heard, you need to be at the table. If you don’t think your voice is not being spoken to, well, then you need to make yourself be the one at the table. When I had my first son, my wife and I were ecstatic. Of course, from a biracial background, I wanted to make sure that his voice was heard. At the time, it wasn’t a very diverse community, so I always enjoyed volunteering. I’ve been volunteering and coaching since probably the age of 15-16 years old.

I just took it upon myself to get involved with my son’s school. Then I got involved with the local soccer club. For me, it just was something I had a lot of fun doing. I liked being able to contribute. That’s the way we make our communities better is by being part of them, and if there’s something that you don’t like in it, then be part of that chain. When I got into real estate, people already knew, liked, and trusted me as an individual, as a soccer coach, as the person that helped their kids at the school.

I was on the Student Advisory Council. I was the chair of our PTO. People knew, liked, and trusted me and their kids knew, liked, and trusted me. It just was one of those things that now I had to translate that to, “Okay, now they need to know, like, and trust me as a REALTOR®.” I had a lot of fun doing that, and I didn’t realize it was something that would be as effective. I knew that people knew me because I’m a loud guy. It’s hard to miss me when I walk into any room, but I didn’t realize that, also, I was a trusted person. I was someone that people liked.

Erin: When we return – the recipe for immersing yourself in your area. REALTORS® Care; we know that, you know that. Find out what REALTORS® in Canada are doing to give back and also remind the community that they’re there for them before, during, and after the sale. Choose which province you want to focus on and read stories that will warm your heart and inspire you to have your experience shared too. That’s at CREA.ca, REALTORS® Care. Thank you for caring too. Now let’s return to our chat with Chris Peters in Halifax and James Mabey in Edmonton as we continue our focus on building your name on REAL TIME.

Something that both of you have really immersed yourselves in is knowing your market. That comes with what, time, and what else? What goes into that, James?

James: Time for sure, but also research and digging. The internet has, obviously, come a long way since I started my real estate career. Of course, now you’ve got such amazing ways of learning about a neighborhood and even tapping into community events on social media, but that all takes a strategic approach as well. You have to be looking for that information, and to some degree, studying it, and then, of course, sharing it because that’s where that confidence comes from other people, that you’re not just working in real estate but that you know real estate. That is something that some new agents struggle with, is that quiet confidence where you can strike up a conversation with somebody and tell them something meaningful about the neighborhood that they live in. It takes time, but it also takes hard work.

Erin: Tell me about geographic farming. You both are really quite well-versed in this. We’ll start with you again, James, if you don’t mind.

James: Geographic farming is a wonderful prospecting method, especially if you’re naturally inclined to networking and working within your sphere. It’s an awesome way to build that and to network with more people. Especially if it’s a community that you live in or work in, you are already going to have a lot of that information and insight, but then you have to be even more specific about it. You have to tap into those community events. You might host those community events.

You’re going to specifically do more open houses in the neighborhoods that you’re working in. You probably will get people to sign up for information on a monthly basis about sales in those neighborhoods so that they can keep the finger on the pulse. It really feels so authentic because we are community people and I think REALTORS® do that very well. Not only can you do it through technology, but it also means actually getting out and being amongst the people that you would probably be around anyways, but just being more intentional about it. I love it as a strategy for sure and I find a lot of really successful REALTORS® employ that.

Erin: How about you, Chris?

Chris: Oh, 100%. For me, it was just natural. As James says, geographical farming doesn’t necessarily have to be in the area that you live, or even work, in. Most of us tend not to live and work in the same community. As a REALTOR®, I’ve very much invested in my community, so it just made sense for me to pick Eastern Passage and Cow Bay as the area that I wanted to geo farm because it just made it easier. I was a familiar face in the community, so I was also a trusted face. People would ask me about different things. Now to James’s point, it’s a matter of studying what your market is. I knew some of the best trails to go to or the little favorite fishing holes or restaurants and diners but now you have to know about how far certain communities are or certain neighborhoods are from which schools, which school zones are they in. That’s important.

Our local boards and associations in conjunction with CREA offer all kinds of different tools that realtors can get to get some of those insights about what’s going on in your specific neighborhood. You’re not flipping through a book or looking up on your phone to find the latest stats. You know it because you live and breathe it every single day.

James: It also is worth mentioning, it doesn’t even have to just be geography. A lot of REALTORS®, you can actually specifically try to work with first-time buyers by targeting properties and neighborhoods that have more first-time buyers in them. To Chris’s point, it might not be the neighborhood you actually live in, but it might be that it’s where you feel most comfortable. That will also come across as being authentic. There’s other ways as well of doing that specific kind of networking and prospecting. It doesn’t even just have to be geographic.

Erin: You both have filled us with so much wisdom that you have acquired not only through study and research but of course just from having been doing it for a number of years. Let’s go back to when you were starting again and the goals that we talked about. How often did you have to calibrate those goals? James?

James: People, obviously, talk about setting smart goals. The goal isn’t necessarily just financially driven or that kind of stuff. It can be also, if you’ve been in the business a while, you could be looking for a better work-life balance. You could be looking to reshape your business where you’re working with more sellers or more buyers. It just depends. I think you have to be really thoughtful. I think you have to involve other people so that there’s some accountability. Whether you’re sharing that with your broker or you’re sharing that even with your spouse or whoever’s running your business with you, those are the important pieces. It’s more than just recalibrating the goals. It’s going through a thoughtful process that you’re really engaged in all year, as opposed to just once a year.

Erin: Chris, you have said that your goal was not to make X amount of dollars at the end of the year or at the end of a decade. That yours was more of a sense of fulfillment. How has that worked out for you as a goal?

Chris: Initially, very poorly. I’ll be honest. When you first started out, both James and I have said part of it is having that mind shift of being from an employee to a business owner, to an entrepreneur, and you need to set those goals and you need to have that vision. When I first started, I’m not motivated by money. I’m motivated more from a feelings perspective of being able to feel a level of success and engagement with both myself and my family. I enjoyed volunteering, so I still want to be able to do that. It’s a matter of knowing how can I make all that work. To be honest, it took me a couple of years before I started figuring out that in order to be that successful person, you have to set some sort of goal.

For me, it wasn’t so much as far as figuring out how many leads or how many deals I needed to do, but it was more so about what is it I need to accomplish? How many families, how many people do I need to help in order for me to be able to pay my mortgage, to be able to put my son in his soccer camps? Then when you put your mind shift into the fact that you’re a business owner, at the end of the day it has to come down to numbers. I think to your original question is, as far as how often do you have to recalibrate that, for me, it’s an ongoing thing.

I think, like what James says, it’s making sure that you surround yourself with smart people. We’re all in this business. Some of us are in this business with only a couple of years experience. Some of us are in this business and we’re bringing baggage and experience from a previous career, but we’re joining, in most cases, brokerages that have tons of successful people, amazing training programs. One of the big things that you learn is that you’re constantly recalibrating what your goals are.

Our market shift, our industry shifts based on things that we have no control over, such as the Bank of Canada raising interest rates eight times in one year. We don’t have a control over that, so that’s going to change things. We have to constantly be recalibrating what our goals and metrics are to ensure that, as James says, that they’re smart goals and that they’re realistic, and that they still fit with what our game plans are. It’s about knowing what that balance is and always making those adjustments in your business.

Erin: We’ll talk more about balance, that all-important element of keeping your mental state and business healthy. If you’re enjoying episode 38 of REAL TIME, and we hope you are, why not subscribe so you don’t miss a future episode and go back into some of our previous conversations from decor to destigmatization; from advertising to analysis. You’ll find a selection of podcast topics as diverse as our REALTOR® community and the people we serve. You’re already here, so why not explore, right?

Right now, let’s jump back into our conversation on building your name with CREA chair-elect, James Mabey, and CREA Atlantic chair, Chris Peters, on REAL TIME. Balance has become something that is so important to the next generation of REALTORS® coming up. I mean, it is to all of us. You’re listening to someone who took one week off when I had a baby back in the early ’90s doing my part of the broadcast from the radio show at home because that balance was not something that was going to be attainable if I was going to succeed.

What do you see in the new REALTORS® coming up or potential ones when they come in? Do you see yourselves or do you see the newer mindset that hustle culture is out and I want to have a full life, as well as a full career? I’m going to start with you, James, on this thought.

James: I think it’s important to know what the thought process is and where people are at. You have to meet them where they’re at when they’re coming into the business. It’s not just about the numbers. You have to talk to them about what it is that success looks like and feels like for them. That’s where you start. If they do tell you that they’re looking for a certain balance and a certain lifestyle, then you have to be able to advise them about systems and tools that they could use in order to make sure that they work smarter and not harder.

Fundamentally, of course, we have to go to work every day in order to be successful, in order to generate success for ourselves, success for our families, and success for our clients but at the same time, it is possible to, through the use of technology and systems, reduce the burden on yourself, individually. That’s when people start to grow teams. That’s when people start to bring in assistance. It isn’t just one thing that you start with as a new REALTOR®, you’re going to grow into your business. If that balance is important, you’ll find ways to do that, and I think that’s admirable.

Erin: How about you, Chris? You’ve got a son who’s just about to enter university. Say he’s like James and comes out of it and says, “You know what? No, I want to follow in your footsteps, Dad.” What would you impart to him that maybe he doesn’t already know or has he seen from you, the ins and outs of the business?

Chris: He’s definitely seen the ins and outs of how I run my business. I think like what James says, we all run our real estate businesses different based on who we are as individuals and also who, and how, we choose to connect with people. That makes a big difference on what you’re going to get out of the business and how you get that out. I do it very much based on my community. I do a lot of my business through referrals from other agents, from business organizations. I immerse myself in my community. I’m part of several different boards I’m on. For me, that would be the big thing for any new agent is making sure that, one, I think that there is still very much that hustle and grind to this business, especially at the start. James was making a comment about being persistent and intentional and consistent, and I think that when you’re starting to build your business, I think one of the things that people newly getting into this industry have to remember, is that like any other business, you’re going to spend a lot of hours building your business first before you can even think about putting it on cruise control.

People are asking you for their faith and trust and putting a lot of trust in you. Whether they’re buying a home or they’re selling their home or resizing, they’re putting that trust in you that you’ve got to give back to them, understand where they’re coming from, and like James said, it doesn’t have to be a geography, it could be a target market because that’s who you want to do.

James: I’d love to echo Chris’s sentiment here. I think that there’s this false equivalency people put with hustle and being in a rush or being out of control. Hustle means that you’re very much in control but you’re being intentional about things. I, for one, am never too busy to sit and have a cup of coffee with my client. I am never too busy to really listen to them and make a personal connection, and that is what I hear Chris describing as well, is that you work hard but you work hard at being valued by your client.

Chris: James is right because the one thing that I will find that people will say to me frequently is, “Chris, how do you find all the time to do all that stuff?,” because either I’m on the board of directors at CREA, I’m on several other boards and committees, I volunteer in my community, I’m a father, I’m a husband and, oh, by the way, I’m also a full-time REALTOR®. I’m a successful REALTOR® in the sense of people looking at the number of transactions or people looking at the dollar sales. There is a lot of hustle. It doesn’t have to be frantic. It’s a matter of learning how to balance that and how to layer it.

I’m able to do a lot of the stuff I do, a lot of my networking, a lot of my connections, and engaging with people. I’m on the border with the directors at the Youth Running Series and we just had a big run this past weekend. I saw a number of my clients at that event and I was able to talk to them about what we’re doing, our next steps, because you’re layering all the different things that you do. It doesn’t have to be a hustle and crazy rush but it is a bit of a grind.

Erin: Up next, a completely organic and eye-opening way of getting your name out there when luck equals preparedness and opportunity. Be sure to keep up with the latest info and links by following CREA.ca on Instagram and Twitter via the handles @crea_aci. Don’t miss inspiration and information right there on your favorite social media platforms. Now, let’s return to our chat with Chris Peters in Halifax and James Mabey in Edmonton on REAL TIME.

Tell me about some of the other ways that you integrated what other REALTORS® were doing but made them your own, James.

James: There’s nothing new under the sun. Technology has changed some of the landscape but we’ve already alluded to the fact that some of the tried true, and tested ways of selling real estate still actually work. I took time to sit down with the people who I saw being successful in my office and they were very kind. They would share insights about what things worked well for them. It can still be authentically you because you take a little of column A and a little of column B and then, suddenly, that’s how James Mabey sells real estate. That’s really the secret sauce, is that you can make it personal and unique to yourself by just making sure that the things that you’re using, the tactics that you’re using to build your business, also fit with your personality and your style because we are not all the same.

Chris and I both have built businesses through networking and sphere contacts and geographic farming. There’s also other ways to build a real estate business. If you know yourself really well, then that’s where that personalized touch will come in, collecting testimonials, staying in touch through a CRM, joining networking groups, all of those pieces are going to be right for some but not for all, and use the strategies that you see being successful around you in the right combination to make it unique to you.

Erin: Yes. Consistency, Chris, is something that is so important as well, yes?

Chris: Yes. James has talked about doing some of the simple things especially when you’re first starting out like building a- one, identifying the CRM that you’re going to use. The best CRM is the one that you’ll use but then it’s a matter of spending that time and effort and building into it and then consistently staying active in it. There’s no point in spending hours, days or even weeks, putting all this content into something that is going to be your backbone which is your sphere and your CRM unless you’re going to be consistently using it.

Find out what works for you, what makes you authentic. There are all kinds of different ways that you can build your real estate business. Model after someone that you find inspires you within your office. It could be at another office. Most REALTORS® are going to share their formulas of success. Part of that is also learning some of the failures that they’ve had along the way. That is what makes us a successful industry, but that’s what makes you as a successful business owner, is knowing that you’re not starting from square one, but what you’re doing, you’re doing it consistently because it is what works for you. If it’s no longer working for you, and you’re putting the effort in, then it’s time to try something different and something new.

James: New agents do not have to create everything from scratch. We have amazing content even through the Living Room Blog for REALTOR.ca. There is a huge mix of things out there and everybody feels so burdened, I think, by trying to create content these days. The truth of the matter is that you have to create some of the content for it to be you, for it to feel authentic as we’ve discussed, but leverage the stuff that’s out there already. There are so many wonderful resources to avail yourself of within the REALTOR® community.

Chris: Put your own spin on stuff.

Erin: Absolutely. Really, the education never ends as well. Even if we just look at a tech standpoint and where we were five years ago and the tools that we’re using now. You start off with four weeks in a class to get your license, for example, but it doesn’t end there, does it, Chris?

Chris: No. For the most part, every single regulator in the province has mandatory courses that you have to take. Some of your local boards and associations may also have courses that you can take. For me, it was a matter of, also, totally immersing myself in this industry. I find if this family is going to trust me and invest their time and effort in me to be their REALTOR® and either help them find a home or sell their home for them or even an investment property, then I felt it was my responsibility to invest in myself, to become all that I can be and the best that I could be. That meant taking additional courses that my broker offered.

One of the great tools that we have at CREA is the Learning Hub. It’s something that we offer to all local boards and associations where we have content, as James has alluded to, on there from CREA. Local boards and associations put their own additional learning content on that. I know in Nova Scotia, we’re constantly loading up information with regards to local webinars that we do, additional education from attending real estate conferences, your brokerage. If you’re with a large national organization, likely have real estate conferences.

There’s all sorts of opportunities that you can get learnings from, lunch and learns. Learn from those people who are around you, but also learn from other industry partners, whether it be local home inspectors, your mortgage brokers, lawyers. There’s tons of learning to do. The more that you immerse yourself in it, the better you are able to serve your clients, which means you’re building on that initial concept that we talked at the very beginning of this, was like, know, and trust. They turn to you as a leader and as a subject-matter expert, and that’s because you’re continually investing in yourself in education.

Erin: Up next, knowing yourself, working what works, and learning from what doesn’t. James mentioned CREA.ca Living Room. It has more useful information in one spot than my own living room has dust bunnies. Thanks to a new dog. From tax benefits for homeowners, to the benefits of using a REALTOR® when renting, decor tips like combining different tastes in the same space, and so much more, Living Room is the place to enjoy a wealth of great stories that will better the lives of your client and you. Visit CREA.ca and spend some time in our Living Room.

Now back to CREA board members, Chris Peters, REALTOR® and Atlantic Regional director, and CREA chair-elect, James Mabey, a broker who manages four offices in the Edmonton area on REAL TIME. James, do any lessons stick out to you from your early days as a REALTOR® as to what worked and what didn’t work, the things that we do have to learn? We have to learn from the things that didn’t work, too.

James: There were many things that did not work, just to be clear. The things that did work were the things that leveraged my own style and the way that I wanted to build business. If you haven’t got your DiSC analysis and figured out who you are and what makes you tick, it’s pretty tough to pick a strategy. Know yourself, I think that is a big lesson to be learned when you’re starting out. As your business changes and you spend more time working with clients instead of as much time maybe as you should trying to find the next client because you have to keep feeding that funnel, be consistent.

You have to make sure that you’re putting just as much effort into working on the business as you are working in the business so that you’ve built something that will offer you consistent results. One of the terrible things about real estate that takes a lot of people out is the inconsistency of it. It’s that ebb and flow of the market and that kind of stuff. If you take the time to be consistent and to do the activities that you know will breed success, they are taught in every course, and you do those things day after day, week after week, year after year, you’re setting yourself up for a long-term business success.

As an entrepreneur, that’s the holy grail. That’s what I learned from my peers around me when I asked them, day one in real estate, what is it that makes your phone ring? They told me just to be consistent and to make sure that I employed the tactics that were going to work for me but did it in a really consistent and effective way continuously.

Erin: You, Chris, as someone who didn’t grow up surrounded by the real estate business, how has your approach to business changed over the years from when you started out?

Chris: I would say, one, it was just knowing what works for me. Obviously, the first thing I did was something that my mentor had asked me to do and that was going out door and knocking. For me, it didn’t feel authentic. It didn’t feel truly me. Walking up and knocking on someone’s door and saying, “Hey, when do you plan on moving?” wasn’t me, however, do I enjoy engaging and talking with people? 100% but I do it differently.

It was a matter of knowing what works for me, what doesn’t work for me. I tried going to those networking functions where there were other like-minded business leaders, REALTORS®, real estate agents, those type of networking functions which most people think that would be a perfect fit for me. It wasn’t my cup of tea but I would prefer to go to the local PTO. I would prefer to go to a local charity event. That, for me, was more, as James says, know who you are, know what makes you tick, and then find a way to leverage that to your advantage to make your business work for you. If you’ve got the passion for it, then find what makes you passionate about it, and use that to your advantage.

Erin: If I’m inferring correctly from what you’re both saying, it’s two main things: be consistent, and be yourself. There is nobody else out there who is you. Is there anything that I’m missing here in a trait, and I’ll start with you, James, that you’ve noticed among realtors who have successfully set themselves apart?

James: I noticed that in my colleague Chris here. They put their clients first. That is the fundamental thing. If I look at all of the people who have been successful in this business, it’s that they focus on the clients and helping them meet their goals. They’re not focused on the paycheck. Sales are great. We love in this REALTOR® community to celebrate the success of our peers, but it’s the people for whom that is secondary and primary is their client relationship and making sure that they’ve reached a desired outcome for their clients.

Erin: And you, Chris?

Chris: I would add to that the old saying giving starts the process of receiving. I think what value are you offering to people to make them want to come to you, to make them believe in you? That goes a long way. I think from an education perspective, the process of getting your license teaches you the basics of trading in real estate, but it doesn’t teach you about being a business owner. If you start understanding what that process is as a new agent and knowing that to be a successful business owner, you’ve got to be authentically you and you’ve got to put the people first, it’s about the relationships that you create, and creating those relationships will bring the transactions to you.

Erin: When we wrap up on this all-encompassing talk today, if I knew then what I know now, as Chris and James share more of their wisdom. Look, we’ve all heard the saying there are no dumb questions, right? Many of us would rather have somebody else ask them, we’re not alone. The most popular post on CREA.ca so far in 2023 is REALTORS® answering the most Googled real estate questions. Check it out. The answers are all there.

Now our final segment of this enlightening REAL TIME discussion with Chris Peters and James Mabey, two working REALTORS® who want to help others find their way too, and then we’re going to hear from a few other REALTORS® to share their wisdom. James, you were 23 when you started out as a realtor. Can I ask you, Chris, how old you were?

Chris: 38.

Erin: Okay. What is the one thing you wish you knew starting out? Now, Chris, you’ve already referred to being a business owner and that mindset, but what else do you wish that you could go back and tell 38-year-old Chris as he was making this huge leap into a new career?

Chris: Oh, good golly. I would say first and foremost it’s respecting the fact that real estate is a business. Who you are, knowing what you’re about, knowing why people already know, like, and trust you, and working that to your advantage. People gather around you for a reason. Most people who are in real estate are doing this because they’re genuinely passionate about helping people. I think if I had known that that was what I needed to be doing right out of the gate and be able to set goals around that, that would probably be the biggest thing I would tell 38-year-old Chris Peters, is focus on your goals of how you intend to help people because that is what’s going to help you get the sales activity that you need to make this career a success.

Erin: James, what do you wish you’d told 23-year-old James Mabey?

James: I wish I could go back and just tell myself it was all going to work out.

James: Strangely, not knowing that it was going to work out and being motivated to work hard and to get engaged and to be involved was probably the thing that contributed to success for me. It’s funny because it’s a double-edged sword. It’d be nice to have that certainty, but it’s that uncertainty that probably drives a lot of people to find success. I also, as a Virgo and have some slight OCD, I thought everything had to be perfect. I came out with this marketing and communications background and everything was creation of content myself and all this other stuff. I would really like to remind myself back then that 95% perfect but 100% done is a heck of a lot better than 100 % perfect and never done.

Erin: Chris?

Chris: From my perspective, it’s knowing what your deadlines are and really tracking that detail and the accountability. When you’re an employee, you’re responsible to me, my operations director, or my vice president, as well as my employees who report to me. As a business owner and as a REALTOR®, I’m responsible to myself and to my clients. It’s hard to keep your clients on track if you’re not on track yourself. There are certain things that your clients need to do as buyers and sellers and if you’re not, yourself, organized and staying consistent and persistent, and as James says, intentional, then it’s hard to ask them to do that.

You’re going to have all different personalities. I’m working with a client right now who’s very much about spreadsheets and color coding things and itemizing things, and it’s great. It works for him. I have to fit that into my schedule when I talk to him, present that communication in the way he needs to receive it. It’s a matter of knowing that I have all of that stuff.

Erin: James, you and I are at a dinner party. First, we’re going to talk about dogs, and then I’m going to ask what you do, and you’re going to tell me you’re a REALTOR®.I’m going to say, “I love those home design and home sales shows on TV. I think I’d like to be a REALTOR®.” What would you say to me?

James: I’m not a big sports person, but I tell you, that’s like playing fantasy football. Those shows are very contrived and they do not reflect the blood, sweat, and tears that go into real estate. Of course, I say it in a very nice way, but I would try to disabuse you of the notion that what you see on TV is actually what success in real estate looks like. That being said, I’d probably also ask you a lot of other questions about what your other backgrounds are that you think might contribute to your success, where you think your clients might come from.

All of those points and questions I might ask you would just drive at that centralized point, which is that becoming a REALTOR® is the equivalent of starting your own business. That’s really what you have to feel passionate about. You have to have that entrepreneurship in order to come into this business and feel like it’s right for you, but also to achieve those results. That’s what I would share with you.

Erin: Chris?

Chris: Those TV shows are so structured and they spend days filming that one clip. If I could find a home for every single buyer after only looking at three homes and tell them, “You can only pick from these three and nothing else because nothing else is out there for you,” oh, gosh, that would make life so much different, probably easier, but that’s not the way it works.

Erin: Yes. You’ve said you don’t try at real estate. It’s not something that you dabble in. Is that right? You’re all in, right?

Chris: Oh, a pet peeve of mine is when I hear someone say, “Oh, I think I want to give real estate a try.” It comes down to, like you said, about people have these preconceived notions of what it is to be a REALTOR®. I think that real estate is about the long game. It’s about building relationships. It’s about being all in. If you’re not prepared to be all in for both yourself as a business owner and for your clients, who are investing and entrusting you, then I think you’re selling both yourself short, but you’re also not doing any favors for your clients.

Erin: From all in to all out of time, it has been such a pleasure to talk to you both today. Your insight and wisdom and humor and everything. It’s just been a joy. Thank you so much, Chris and James. We so appreciate it.

Chris: It was a pleasure. Thank you, Erin.

James: It was awesome. Thanks, Erin. You are the best.

Erin: Now let’s hear a few other CREA members’ insights on building your name.

Donna Mathewson: Hi, it’s Donna Mathewson from the Ontario Real Estate Association. My advice that I would give to any new agent starting out in this business would be to make sure and maintain your integrity, be honest, and be ready to work hard. Real estate is a very engaging and very rewarding career, but it’s one that you get out of what you put into.

Rob Longo: Hi, I’m Rob Longo from Sarnia, Ontario. Something that I wish I knew when I started out as a REALTOR® was patience. I think one of the biggest things we find as new REALTORS® is that we want to be successful very quickly and very early, and we see the success that others are having. The biggest thing is patience. Take your time, build that business into a long-term career that you’re going to be able to enjoy for decades to come.

Tania Artenosi: Hi, I’m Tania Artenosi, and I’m a broker-owner from the GTA to Muskoka with eight offices. My best advice for new REALTORS® starting out in the business is to go out and meet people, have conversations, and build relationships with new clients, future clients, families, and friends. You’ll never know where your first client is going to come from, so go out there and have conversations.

Erin: Thank you, Donna, Rob, and Tania. We are so grateful to you and to James and Chris for sharing your wisdom. REAL TIME is a production of Alphabet® Creative with technical magic by Rob Whitehead of Real Family Productions. I’m Erin Davis, thanking you so much for joining us. We can’t wait to welcome you back for the next episode of REAL TIME. Talk to you then.

On this special episode of REAL TIME, live-recorded at the Canadian Real Estate Association’s (CREA) 2023 Leadership Summit, we’re joined by Lital Marom, a globally recognized thought leader, entrepreneur, innovation strategist, and business visionary.

Lital has spoken at industry conferences worldwide, inspiring organizations to “disrupt themselves” and unlock their potential in the new, exponential economy. She’s a trailblazer on topics ranging from digital transformation and emerging technologies to workplace culture and agile leadership.

On this episode, Lital focuses on how organizations can reimagine themselves through mindset shifts, the power of data, exploring new business models, and more.

Help us improve REAL TIME.Let us know what you think by filling out our survey. We’ll use your feedback to make the podcast a better tool for you and REALTORS® across the country.

Click here to enter or a chance to win a $10,000 ARD Outdoor + Vondom Furniture Makeover!

The post You Could Win A $10,000 ARD Outdoor + VONDOM Furniture Collection appeared first on House & Home.

Erin Davis: Hi, there. Welcome to REAL TIME, the podcast for REALTORS® It’s brought to you by the Canadian Real Estate Association or CREA. Let’s talk REALTOR.ca, shall we? It’s Canada’s most popular and trusted real estate platform, developed and operated by CREA. On behalf of its REALTORS® members, REALTOR.ca keeps REALTORS®, you, at the heart of the real estate transaction, while providing the most comprehensive collection of listings to help guide property buyers, sellers, and renters.

On this episode of REAL TIME, we look at the future of Canada’s real estate landscape. Not only that, we are peering into what’s coming in the world of tech. It’s fast-paced and the stakes are high. Tying these two together, we asked, how can REALTOR.ca secure its relevancy in this increasingly competitive space? Joining us today as we examine what kind of vision has gone into shifting REALTOR.ca from a not-for-profit association-driven product to a wholly owned for-profit subsidiary of CREA, what does it all mean, and how will it expand its potential for you, for REALTORS® and your clients? This is going to be a fascinating chat. Here we go.

Let’s start by introducing who’s joining us. First, we’d like to introduce, also from the West Coast, Jill Oudil. Jill, welcome. Tell us about yourself.

Jill Oudil: Hi, Erin. Thanks. Nice to be here. My name is Jill Oudil, as you said. I am the current chair of CREA, the Canadian Real Estate Association. I can also say that I am proud to be a realtor and I have been for, I want to say, well over 30 years, actually. I’m a second generation too.

Erin: Wow. Okay. Nice to have you here. We also have Patrick Pichette. Everybody knows Patrick, but go ahead, Patrick, make the introductions.

Patrick Pichette: Thanks, Erin. Nice to be back. Patrick Pichette, Vice President REALTOR.ca. Consumer and realtor technology is one of our pillars at CREA, so I’m responsible for the roadmap of our various technology products. I also have the privilege of leading a very talented and enthusiastic technology team.

Erin: Excellent. That includes REALTOR.ca. That gentleman sitting next to you, we all know Andrew. Andrew, go ahead.

Andrew Jackson: Hey, Erin. Hi, everyone. My name’s Andrew Jackson. I’m the head of business development for the Canadian Real Estate Association. It is great to be back.

Erin: It’s nice to have you back, all three of you, Jill, Patrick, Andrew. Now, I know I go to REALTOR.ca when I’m searching for real estate, and frankly, that’s far too often for my husband’s liking, because I get the itch, or even when I’m in the mood to browse. Honestly, you want to see what’s going on in your neighborhood, what’s happening with all the listings, but I’ll be honest, I’ve never really given much thought to its operations, so we’re going to open the curtains here. Jill, perhaps we can start there. What role does CREA’s board of directors have when it comes to REALTOR.ca?

Jill: Sure. Thanks, Erin. Well, our board of directors actually provides strategic oversight to the whole organization. We have a great board. We really care about what’s best for REALTORS®. Our strategic plan has three pillars, actually. One of those is technology, which includes REALTOR.ca.

Erin: What are the other two pillars?

Jill: Actually, the other two pillars are advocacy and also REALTORS® reputation. I can tell you that our strategic plan is supportive of innovative tools. As long as we’re providing things to REALTOR.ca that helps REALTORS® remain relevant with consumers, the decision to turn REALTOR.ca into a for-profit subsidiary of CREA was a result of our strategic planning process in the last couple of years. We want to make sure that we ensure REALTOR.ca continues to bring value to both REALTORS®, but also, of course, as well as the consumer and our clients.

Erin: Yes. Continuing to bring value to REALTORS® and consumers, I can understand the underlying importance of this move. Now, Andrew, give us a little bit more of a look behind that curtain that I mentioned. How is REALTOR.ca managed and funded?

Andrew: Absolutely. REALTOR.ca, for many years, actually, has been managed and operated within the Canadian Real Estate Association, which is a not-for-profit organization. REALTOR.ca is one of, if not, the most valued member benefit enjoyed by Canadian REALTORS®. It is primarily funded through their membership dues. However, there are also some revenue streams from services such as DDF, which stands for Data Distribution Facility. It’s actually a mechanism by which REALTORS® can have their listings distributed onwards into partners that are connected to REALTOR.ca.

Erin: Okay. Well, it’s clear that REALTORS® are embedded in the platform’s mission, you get that from its name, obviously, but Jill, as chair, how does it add value for REALTORS®?

Jill: Well, we make sure that it adds value for REALTORS®. I think that what is really important is that what’s good for clients and the consumer is what’s good for REALTORS®. It’s actually both. It does provide other things. There is a listing stats app that’s related to that, that our REALTORS® can provide information and direct correspondence and statistics to the clients, which is amazing. Then also, of course, REALTOR.ca helps REALTORS® be top of mind with our customers. It’s so important that we have that connection.

Erin: Absolutely. Patrick, what do you have to say about this?

Patrick: Just to build on what Jill was saying, just to paint a picture of the relevancy of REALTOR.ca in the marketplace. It has a 48% market share, meaning 48% of all Canadians who use real estate sites and apps have REALTOR.ca as one of their destinations. That’s a monthly percentage where there are some months where we’ve hit over 50%. This rarely happens in any industry where you have a market leader that has that kind of market presence.

Also, there are some major companies that have aligned their brands with REALTOR.ca. I think my favorite example is probably Apple. When they launched iOS 15, they included the REALTOR.ca app as part of their promotion. There we were next to Ted Lasso and Justin Bieber. There’s many other examples. TD is another one that comes to mind. If you visit the TD Bank website and you look up the mortgage affordability calculator, and you use that tool, you put in your information and it spits out an ideal range for you, as part of that result, it will show you listings that fall within your range from REALTOR.ca. To see the full listing, you have to click through to REALTOR.ca, and that lead goes directly to our members.

That kind of visibility, you can’t buy that. It’s earned. It just speaks to the strength of the REALTOR.ca brand and how much credibility it has in the marketplace. Even my friend at ChatGPT agrees. I must have tried 20 or different queries about where to find real estate information. Every time REALTOR.ca is number one. I don’t know if you’ve all tried it or not, but it’s scary actually how smart it’s getting over time. Just to add, again, to what Jill was saying, we’re quite fortunate to have this powerhouse brand that’s out in the marketplace. At the end of the day, it’s generating business opportunities for our members.

Every year we send over five million leads back to REALTORS® in the form of email and phone leads. This comes at no cost above and beyond membership dues. This is something that’s unique anywhere in the world, that the market-leading platform is owned by REALTORS® it’s exclusive for them, and they get to benefit from the leads without paying any additional fees.

Erin: Wow. Then maybe, Andrew, you can address this. Why the shift to a for-profit structure?

Andrew: The shift to a for-profit structure is fundamentally about allowing us to grow revenues and to access new levels of funding, funding that’s really needed for the business and needed to make into different areas for investment. Really I think of four main areas. The first and foremost is the talent, the team that’s required to build this. We’re constantly needing to retain, but also attract new talent. The roadmap that Patrick speaks to, needing to deliver to that roadmap, but also to accelerate delivery to that roadmap.

Also, we just talked about ChatGPT, and there’s lots of examples of emerging technology in the 10 years here that Patrick has seen. I’m sure you’ve seen lots of emerging technologies, Patrick. Really, we need to make sure that we’re on top of that and that we’re always leveraging what is appropriate for us to stay on top of there. Then last but not least is really about making sure that our visibility and our reach is always there. Even if you have a leading position you can’t take that for granted. You can’t rest on your laurels.

Now, I will say that, obviously, not-for-profits have strict limitations on things, whether that’s things like the revenue model or the types of revenues. Even the timing of revenue and when you can recognize it and when you can spend those revenues all come with constraints in a not-for-profit context. Really why we’re creating this now is to create a for-profit subsidiary that really frees up some of those constraints so that CREA can better fulfill its mission. We also like to think that it’s actually a little bit more than that. It’s also about really building here a PropTech contender that is realtor owned and that is there to fight for a future that is friendly for our members.

Erin: Patrick, do you have anything to add to that?

Patrick: Oh, absolutely. As Andrew mentioned, I’ve been here for 10 years now, so I’m really excited about this move. REALTOR.ca is no longer just a website, it’s evolved into a very comprehensive platform. It has a web version that’s accessible through desktop. It’s got one for your mobile browser. It’s got standalone apps for Apple and Android. As Jill mentioned, there’s an app that is exclusive for members. By the way, if you’re a realtor and you’re listening to this podcast, if you don’t have the version of the REALTOR.ca app that’s for agents and brokers, go to your app store, do a search for REALTOR.ca and look for the version with the black R icon.

The red one is the regular REALTOR.ca site. Hopefully, you’ve got that one on your phone as well, but grab the one that’s for agents and brokers. That will allow you to do a few really useful things. First of all, it will allow you to see your listing stats for REALTOR.ca, as well as all your DDF destinations. It also allows you to share some really slick reports with your clients. You can fire those off through text message or email. You can manage your leads as well, so have a look.

Just to come back to the platform conversation, Erin, Andrew mentioned DDF, which is part of the platform as well. Also, we’ve built a platform now where other solutions have integrated into it. For example, we’ve got about a dozen different video and 3D virtual tour applications integrated into REALTOR.ca. There are three different realtor rating tools that also integrate REALTOR.ca. We’ve built this platform that makes it easy for tools that REALTORS® use on a day-to-day basis to integrate with. I think it’s really important to highlight the fact that we’ve evolved from a website to a platform.

Andrew is right, there’s so much capital and innovation coming into our industry. There’s about 450 known PropTech companies in Canada alone, about 5,000 across North America. All this innovation is great news for REALTORS®. It’s great news for consumers. It means better tools, more useful platforms, but it’s also imperative that REALTOR.ca still be relevant in this ecosystem, and not just for the next few years, but the next few decades.

Erin: It strikes me as you talk that it seems like a gathering place, one-stop shopping, if you will, for REALTORS® and consumers alike, who can find what they need without having to look at all of these different PropTechs and everything that are out there right now. Honestly, I find it mind-boggling, but just to be able to go someplace where it’s all been verified and the best have been chosen for people to use. Am I reading this right, Jill, as a realtor and the chair of CREA, are you excited about this place as that one-stop shopping, if you will?

Jill: Absolutely. It’s an amazing site. I think that we’re competitive. There’s so much innovation in the tech space right now, and we want to make sure that we continue to be in this race. I would say that we’re not only fortunate really, but there’s been a lot of hard work that’s come up to where we’re at today. I have to give CREA’s staff, Patrick, a good thing it’s a podcast or you’d be blushing maybe, but they’re amazing, honestly, to keep us at the level that we’re at now. Andrew said it very well, is don’t rest on your laurels.

The fact is, is we’re not lucky, we worked hard to get here, but we want to make sure that our site continues to have the mission of ensuring that REALTORS® remain at the heart of the real estate transaction. It is important and we absolutely have to make sure that we stay in this race.

Erin: Yes, by looking down the road and seeing what the future holds. As much as that’s possible, Andrew, what will be important for REALTOR.ca to get right as it shifts to this new structure?

Andrew: Of course, with Patrick and Jill here, I think that there’s lots of assurance to make sure that we are going to get things right, but I would reflect on really the following things, and they’re actually things that helped, I think, lead us to this current position of market leadership. Really four different things in my mind. The first, again, is team. Patrick and I both have a background in technology companies and we believe in the importance of getting the right talent into the right positions at the right time. That has been the philosophy and will need to continue to be the philosophy. In fact, even more as we look to grow the team and add in new dimensions of capabilities for the next journey.

The second is really about resourcing and access to resources. It’s really critical that the new REALTOR.ca have access to funding and funding models that it’s going to allow it to really accelerate things like the roadmap or other investments. One of the things that’s obviously critical is oversight and governance and a governance that continues to be supportive of the vision that involves experienced individuals who have experience in a growth journey similar to this one, for example, and of course, free of conflict.

The last one, which we keep coming back to but I think it’s really critical here is alignment. It’s really critical that REALTOR.ca maintain its alignment to its core mission, which you’ve heard from Jill and from Patrick, which is to keep REALTORS® at the heart of the real estate transaction.

Erin: We’ll be back with Andrew, Patrick, and Jill in just a moment. It includes some outstanding news on what’s going to be getting a test rollout at REALTOR.ca in the months to come. It is so exciting.

When you’ve got some time, why not check out CREA Café on REALTOR.ca? It’s a great place to peruse everything from stories about interest rates and their effects on your life and work to some fascinating pieces like “5 Questions Your Client Should Ask a Condo Board Before Buying,” how CREA WEBForms can help your business, and even some of the most unusual bylaws in Canada that you should know about, from the length of the grass to whether your client needs to check out the rules before owning a parrot. It’s all there. Spend some time with us at CREA Café right there at REALTOR.ca.

Now back to this REALTOR.ca-focused episode of REAL TIME with our guests Andrew Jackson, CREA’s head of business development; Jill Oudil, chair of CREA; plus the VP of REALTOR.ca, Patrick Pichette. Patrick, you talked about being number one in market share, I’m going to open the curtains a little bit more here. If you would, though, can you share your REALTOR.ca secret sauce, so to speak? Please tell me it’s keto. No, I’m kidding. What is your secret sauce?

Patrick: Well, we wanted to validate this recently, so we did some comprehensive consumer research, which we do on an annual basis, but this year we wanted to have a laser focus on why has the public rewarded REALTOR.ca with the top position. If we look into what the research is telling us, the consumer has chosen REALTOR.ca as a preferred platform for three key reasons. The first attribute will be trust. Trust that’s been earned throughout the years by providing a full, accurate current view of the market, quality of the information, and also consistency of the user experience.

You could be looking at any listing anywhere in the country and the experience is fairly consistent across the board, which is something that users really value. Also, as I mentioned earlier, REALTOR.ca is accessible regardless of what device you use. There are very few real estate brands that actually provide that level of connectivity. The second attribute would be transparency. Along those same lines, Canadians appreciate the transparency of the information that they get from REALTOR.ca.

There’s no account needed. Although you can set up an account to save your preferences and set up your notifications, you don’t have to set up an account to simply see the listing information. Also, where possible, we’ve been adding more information like sold price history. In certain places, we now have the status of a listing. For example, if a listing is conditionally sold, there will be a label on the listing that will indicate that. That kind of information is very, very appreciated, and it’s expected by consumers.

The third quality is the fact that REALTOR.ca is unbiased. It represents all REALTORS® across the country and their listings. Consumers recognize the value of having that one single source where they can see the entire inventory. Definitely, having all the listings is a strong part of the value proposition. What has driven the growth, like I mentioned earlier, from 25% to 48% market share, that kind of growth over the last 5 years, what’s driven that growth has been the focus on trust, transparency, and remaining unbiased.

Erin: I think that, Jill, you can speak to this, no matter what the market or even the economy is doing at any given time, just how important it is that mutual trust. You must experience this every day as a realtor.

Jill: Well said. Mutual trust is really important with our clients because that’s the foundation of our business. We want to do what’s best for our clients and help them through the whole process.

Erin: What this is, is just building on that. Thank you, Jill. Things are good. You’ve captured people’s attention. You’re the market leader as we’ve been hearing you say. Tell me this, why is this the time to make this shift? Andrew.

Andrew: Actually, I think you’ve just laid out the reasons to make the shift. It’s precisely for those reasons. It’s much better to lean into this sort of a change from a position of strength and leadership. We know we’ve done really well competing in the so-called portal wars, as I like to call it, but the battlefields ahead are different. We need to be able to maintain our success into that next chapter and for years to come for REALTORS®. Again, we can’t rest on our laurels and assume that the success that we’ve had from this past decade just automatically secures our future.

I love that Patrick has shared all of the wonderful insights that we’ve gained over why consumers and how consumers have rewarded us with that position. We are very data-driven, and we’re always looking for the story beneath the story, really. As such, we know which consumer segments in which we are historically strong, but we also know in which ones we’re not. We know where we have achieved, let’s call it consumer preference, but we also know where we have yet to achieve consumer loyalty. These are the sorts of things that really drive us and drive the team to say, “We believe that now is the time to take that next step and not get complacent.”

Erin: The ditches are full of the remnants of companies or organizations that thought they had it and were able to sit back and put their feet up. How about some of those companies that got obsolete? Do you and Patrick have any insight so that we can look at those and go, “Yes, not us”?

Andrew: I feel we could play Bingo with them.

Patrick: We have a Myspace, but you’re right, Erin, history is filled with companies who had a comfortable lead, became complacent, and then lost market share or disappeared altogether. One that’s top of mind for me is I grew up in Hamilton and a company nearby, Blackberry RIM, had such a lead and then had Apple reinvent that whole space. To Andrew’s point, never take your lead for granted. You have to pay attention to the data, you have to pay attention to early signals, and you have to get ahead of it because once you lose that lead, you never get it back.

Andrew: Just to build on that, the other reason for that is in the technology industry it’s constantly reinventing and lines are being cast in new areas and new ways. Like I said, the portal wars, portals were a category for the past 10 years or so, but will that remain? Where will the lines be drawn now? We’ve seen that happen time and time again where in fact there could be a whole category of independent vendors that all of a sudden the next year it’s completely erased because one of the major platforms has added some new capability into its system and so that independent category no longer exists.

We know that the technology industry, PropTech included, is constantly reinventing, and we know that a victory in one lane does not mean a victory in the next. That’s what we’re building here, is making sure that this is a strong and vibrant, and nimble technology company that can sustain through those transitions.

Erin: To carry on with that metaphor, the intersection of opportunity and preparedness is where success is met. Jill, I think you can speak to this and the readiness of leadership to do this thing.

Jill: Yes, absolutely. Our leadership on our board is ready. It’s been talked about for so many years moving in this direction. Actually, there’s many other boards and associations across the country that also now own for-profits and have done similar things. Our clients are looking at other sources for information. Information is needed now. They want the information, and there’s lots of innovation in this space. This is great for our industry, but we need to make sure that we’re continually the trusted source and the one that consumers want to go to to get their information and their data.

Erin: Yes. As much as computers and ChatGPT is really entering the conversation, it’s that human connection, that human trust that you have built up for as you say your three decades as a realtor now and, of course, as chair of CREA. That human touch will never be replaced. Andrew, I do have a question for you. Are we going to expect to see banner ads everywhere?

Andrew: Oh my goodness. Yes, really. No. Thankfully it’s not 1995. First of all, the serious answer to that question is why would we begin to do things that go completely against what led us to this point of success? We just wouldn’t do that. We don’t need to, it doesn’t make sense. With the market share numbers that Patrick just shared, we have a core audience that is highly engaged, and that’s something that these other sites may not necessarily have. Our job is not to replicate the models of those sites, it’s really to find new ways to bring value to our existing core audiences, that’s both REALTORS® and consumers.

That could be either from value that REALTOR.ca delivers or via a selection of brands or providers that we choose to facilitate access to. I’d like to give you an example if that would be helpful.

Erin: Sure.

Andrew: Okay, cool. For example, one of the popular areas on REALTOR.ca actually is a blog, a blog that we call Living Room. It’s got lots of great lifestyle content. This is an area very popular with consumers. Of course, when you think about it, it would be a very natural area for us to explore promotional partnership opportunities for with, for example, other lifestyle brands. Maybe another example as well is that we’re frequently approached by PropTech companies looking to offer innovative products and solutions to REALTORS®. Many of them really make sense to do that with.

It would make sense that we would have a program or a marketplace that would allow us to vet those and really work with those vendors to refine offerings that make sense for our market and facilitate their exposure. This is actually the kind of thing, I’m thinking, Patrick, we’ve done this on an ad-hoc basis in the past successfully with companies like Matterport or even RealSatisfied. I know that we’re currently working on some things with open offers that would fall into this category as well. Those are some examples of everything but banner ads, Erin.

Erin: I love that it sounds so organic, especially when you use the example of Living Room, which is just a comfortable, cozy place to go and to feel like you’re learning stuff and getting other opinions all in one place, so good. If you can do that, more power to you. I think it’s a great idea. Now, Patrick, you talked about consumer data, what else do you see trending when it comes to real estate transactions in Canada? What tools and technologies or innovations are we expecting to engage with in the future, going to do some crystal ball gazing here, my friend, to enhance the buying, selling, and listing experience?

Patrick: I love this question, Erin. Two things come to mind. First of all, I’m very bullish on virtual and augmented reality and the impact that these technologies will have on our industry. It’s still the early days. We’re just scratching the surface right now when it comes to leveraging this tech to remotely visit a property, get a feel for the neighborhood. Just imagine walking into a house and using your phone or your tablet, using that screen to start moving furniture around or knocking down a wall. I think these technologies will become a common way to interact with listings.

The second big trend. Information is going to continue to become more and more accessible. More transparent. Consumers always get what they want. They are undefeated in the history of business. You know what, that’s okay because what consumers value most from a REALTOR® is not information. What they’re looking for is a trusted advisor. Earlier on we talked about transparency initiatives. Something new that will be coming to REALTOR.ca in the next few weeks, something very exciting, will be the ability to see offers tracked in real-time on REALTOR.ca.

We announced a partnership with a company called Openn Offers last May, open with two Ns. Now they’re in the final steps of their due diligence work. They’ve onboarded several brokerages who will participate in a pilot in Ontario and British Columbia. We’re looking to address the perceived lack of transparency in the sales process that many consumers, governments, and REALTORS® have been vocal about. We want to do this in a way that will continue to keep REALTORS® at the heart of the transaction.

Erin: Okay. I’m catching my breath here as somebody who likes to look at real estate and properties around me and also find out what houses have done in areas that I’ve moved from, just because I like to look at those numbers and think, “Oh, what if I’d held onto it?” Tell me what this means. What does this mean to me as a consumer? Can you give us a little bit more insight into this? I think it’s fascinating.

Andrew: Erin, I’m just going to jump in. It’s Andrew. You know what, that you just self-described, there’s actually a large cohort of people that are just like you.

Erin: Oh, yes.

Andrew: We know that not everybody who goes onto REALTOR.ca is actually imminently buying or selling a property. There’s actually a whole cohort that go on there routinely just to see how they’re doing, or to see where they stand, or just to make themselves feel confident about where they stand. Anyway, I just thought I’d interject.

Patrick: It’s all good. I think we could do a whole podcast just on this whole offer process and how it’s coming to REALTOR.ca. Maybe I can address one of the key concerns that comes up when we mention this. The question that we’ll get is, “Well, why are you launching an eBay kind of auctioning service?” This is not at all the plan. This doesn’t replace the current offer and acceptance method of buying and selling real estate. It just automates the existing process.

The beauty of the Openn platform and its integration with REALTOR.ca is that there’s still going to need to be a REALTOR® on both sides of the transaction. The Openn platform provides buyers with the opportunity to see how much competition exists and where their offer stands in the negotiation process. On the flip side, for sellers, it builds confidence that they’re getting the most that they can from current market conditions.

Erin: I’m super excited about it and cannot wait. As someone who lives in BC, as you do, Jill, as well, as a REALTOR®, how do you see these things, these opportunities, translating into your future day-to-day?

Jill: Excellent, the way you put that as opportunities. I think that it’s crucial that we remember that we need and want to provide amazing data to our customers, to our clients. That starts with the REALTOR®, I know. I am a REALTOR®. I know how hard it is and how much work that goes into providing the information that goes into those listings that end up on REALTOR.ca. REALTOR.ca, in essence, it ends up becoming a connection, really, for us, between us and our clients.

Through the leads that come through REALTOR.ca, through us as REALTORS® providing the data and the data being in the site, it enables us to continue to provide that complete data to the customer or our clients as well. I have to say, it’s crucial that we keep providing the best tools to support our clients in their journey, which is the long journey it can be through both the buying and the selling of real estate. It’s amazing that, of course, REALTOR.ca is owned by REALTORS®.

Erin: Let’s end with a little out-of-the-box thinking now, shall we? It’s 2033, 10 years from now, they’re still talking about the slap at the Oscars, and you’re on REALTOR.ca. Tell us, what do you see? All right. We’re going to start out with Andrew.

Andrew: First of all, I’m still trying to get over 2033 as a concept, Erin. Those numbers don’t even make sense in my brain right now, but I can think about it in terms of decades. Like we’ve said, the past 10 years felt like there was the great portal wars. I think that the next 10 years are going to look very different. I think that the position that we’ve gained is phenomenal, but we have to be mindful of what we’ll have to do in order to maintain the equivalent position moving forward because the lines perhaps are being drawn differently now.

For example, there’s a lot more verticalization happening, meaning that banks, for example, are building or acquiring brokerages. The solution stacks are deepening as everybody is trying to be that one-stop shop so the real estate consumer never has to leave their site. It’s like whereas, in the past decade and beyond, real estate portals were a standalone market, it feels like that’s less likely to be now. Our plan here, though, is to create a strong and really well-supported and nimble technology company that can be around and help REALTORS® prepare for that next chapter of the journey.

Erin: What about you, Jill? What are your thoughts on this heading to 2033? Keep in mind, we’re already almost at the quarter point of this century, which is enough to blow your mind, but let’s look at the third point at 2033. What do you think, Jill?

Jill: I guess time flies. 2033 sounds so far away from now, but when I think about 10 years ago, I used to have to go drive to rent a movie. Ultimately, I think that what we want to make sure is that REALTOR.ca stays the leading platform that it is today and making sure that REALTORS® can continue to do what they love and continue to do their job in serving customers, helping them buy and sell real estate. Ultimately, that means keeping REALTORS® top of mind with all Canadians. Having said that, that makes REALTOR.ca our best tool to continue to defend that position.

Erin: Absolutely. Patrick, your thoughts on where we’re headed for the future?

Patrick: I agree with everything that Andrew and Jill said, but I’ll go in a bit of a different direction. I think 2033, when you’re on REALTOR.ca, first of all, it’ll be a much more personal one-to-one experience. Whether you’re a young urbanite like my son who’s in Montreal right now looking for his first apartment, or you’re somebody looking to downsize, regardless of who you are, you will feel like REALTOR.ca understands your needs. The other thing is, it’s going to be a much more immersive experience. Earlier I talked a bit about augmented and virtual reality and that kind of technology.

The other thing, I’m pretty confident when I’m on the site or on the apps, anywhere on the platform, in 10 years from now, I’m still going to see a lot of REALTORS®. Technology tools are going to come and go, and it’s hard to forecast exactly what kind of bells and whistles will be on the platform, but I’m pretty confident that there’ll still be REALTORS® because Canadians will continue to need that trusted advisor. Regardless of how technology is going to come support that journey, there’s still going to be a role for a trusted advisor.

Erin: Thank you all for your time today and continued success as you look to the future, holding on to your integrity and what you have already built and just making sure that everybody gets the best experience from REALTOR.ca. We’re grateful for the illumination today. Thank you so much, Jill, Patrick, Andrew.

Andrew: Thanks, Erin.

Patrick: Thanks, Erin.

Jill: It was great. Thanks.

Erin: Our guests today have been CREA Chair, Jill Oudil; VP of REALTOR.ca, Patrick Pichette; and Andrew Jackson, CREA’s head of business development. I’m Erin Davis. It has been my pleasure once again to host REAL TIME, a production of Alphabet® Creative with Rob Whitehead and Real Family on the tech side. Thanks for listening and we’ll talk to you again soon on REAL TIME.

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Erin Davis: Welcome to REAL TIME, the podcast for REALTORS®
and all of us who are fascinated with the buying, the selling, the great storytelling. My name is Erin Davis, and you’re going to love this episode number 35 because it’s about influencing social media; getting your name, your brand, your story out there, and you don’t have to be a Spielberg or even a Kardashian to do it. It’s a hyper-digital world. Many brands are finding success tapping into and nurturing niche communities.

On this episode, Shannae Ingleton Smith joins REAL TIME to help you as a REALTOR® build a niche of your own. Shannae is President and CEO of Kensington Grey. It’s a boutique influencer agency rooted in diversity, and she’s an expert in content creation and brand storytelling. In addition to building a niche, she also has valuable advice for you on what platform fits you personally, on how to strike an effective balance between telling your own story and having others, like influencers, champion your brand for you and even what you might expect it to cost you. Let’s dig in.

Shannae, thanks so much for joining us today on REAL TIME. For those who may not be familiar with you yet, and it seems from your numbers like not too many are unfamiliar with you, let’s start with a quick backgrounder on you, could we?

Shannae Ingleton Smith: Yes, of course. I started off with a background in big media, working for one of Canada’s largest media conglomerates. Over time, things started to move from traditional media, so like television, radio, print, et cetera, to digital and then to social media. As my career evolved, so did my passion for social media. In Canada, we’re very fortunate enough to have a year off for mat leave.

While I was on mat leave with my daughter Kensington, the concept of the agency, Kensington Grey, was formed. Shortly, about a year and a half after returning to work after having her, I left my job and started Kensington Grey Agency, which is an influencer management agency that focuses on diverse creators, particularly Black creators. It’s my life’s passion and something I’m really proud of.

Erin: Wonderful, and to have it named after your daughter too, Kensington. That’s so beautiful.

Shannae: Thank you.

Erin: What is your business mission then, Shannae?

Shannae: Our business mission is to empower Black people, to empower Black voices, and to ensure that Black creators in particular are at the top of their game from an education perspective, and to ensure that they’re not leaving any money on the table, and they’re being paid fairly and equitably. With my background in media, as well as my passion for this space, I’d sort of married the best of both worlds.

Erin: It sounds like it. I was looking at some pictures on your Instagram feed, and there was a mug there with quite a striking message. Do you remember what it said?

Shannae: Yes, pay me fairly and don’t just use me for diversity clout.

Erin: Diversity clout. I thought that that was just perfect. How do you think your message is getting across? Do you feel like you’re really breaking through with your push for diversity?

Shannae: Yes, absolutely. Diversity is definitely not a trend for me or for anyone at our company. We’ve believed in diversity and have been touting diversity, whether it be literally or figuratively, I feel like, my whole life. With everything that happened in 2020 with George Floyd, I think that a lot of companies caught up with where we were already at. As a result of that, I think that real change is happening.

I think that that time, everyone was at home during the pandemic, and we witnessed the tragedy with George Floyd, and everyone- it was just an opportunity for everyone to just really reflect and to see where they could be doing better. A lot of both organizations, companies, peoples, communities, really stepped up to the plate and have made long-term transformative change, and I think it’s a beautiful thing to see.

Erin: Well, what types of clients do you work with?

Shannae: We work with all kinds of clients. Our creators are in every category you could think of, from fashion, to beauty, to lifestyle, to parenting. Think of every brand or any brand that might want to work with creators in those space, and we’ve probably worked with them. Whether it’s Walmart, whether it’s Home Depot, whether it is Louis Vuitton, or it is Valentino, or The Gap, Old Navy, we’ve literally worked with every brand you could ever imagine.

Erin: That’s incredible. How has the influencer world evolved, Shannae, from celebrity endorsements on TV, late-night TV talk show hosts selling ALPO dog food because that was part of their shtick, right? In some ways, they were the original influencers. It’s been a long road to where we are now, hasn’t it?

Shannae: I definitely think it’s been a long road. I think that influencers have always existed, but I think that it’s a little bit more literal in today’s terms. I feel like back then, celebrity endorsements were- it was very clear that you were being sold to, or that the celebrity was doing whatever they were doing for the money, whether it’s selling dog food or whatever. Whereas I think with influencer marketing, people have the ability to talk about things that they would already be talking about but being paid for that.

That’s where the importance of authenticity and only endorsing things that you would genuinely use in your real life and that you have used before and that you would genuinely recommend. Audiences have become very smart, and they can sniff out when it’s not an authentic organic partnership. I think that the new element of authenticity and realness and lifting the fourth wall or lifting the veil is what- I guess is what differentiates creators of today versus the celebrities of yesterday.

Erin: Yes, I think that you bring up a good point there, talking about whether that talk show host actually used ALPO at home with his own dog or dogs. I think now it’s expected or sniffed out if somebody doesn’t use the product that they’re endorsing. It’s expected. If somebody is– For example, recently the whole brouhaha about the influencer who was plugging a mascara, and it turned out that she had fake lashes on. That can really take you down in a hurry. That authenticity, not only is it sensed, but it’s expected.

Shannae: Yes, I agree. Well, it’s all about – Building a community is all about building trust. In order for you to have a successful and an engaged and growing community, they need to be dialed in and they need to really trust you. Once you lose or you’ve broken that trust with them, they tune out and they disengage.

Erin: Yes, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation and a moment to lose it. You got to be so careful, right? You, Shannae, your career, and in a nutshell, you summed it up very quickly, and a very broad expanse of experience in your case. Tell us the one thing you would like to disabuse people of when it comes to their ideas of what an influencer is. If you meet somebody at a cocktail party and say, “Well, I’m an influencer,” what is the thing that you’re afraid they’re thinking that just isn’t true?

Shannae: We’re not just self-absorbed people that are walking around taking selfies. Some of us are. Some of us actually are, but there are a lot of people who just take the power of their platform very seriously and the influence that they have very seriously, and they really only use it to bring and add value to the lives of the people that follow them. We’re a new form of media. We’re the new magazine, we’re the new talk show, we’re the new radio station where people tune in to find out about the things that they love, to sometimes find out about current events, just to find out what’s happening in the world. We’re a new source of, yes, media.

Erin: Yes. A new town square, as it were.

Shannae: Exactly.

Erin: 1.8 billion. Now that is one crowded town square, and who wouldn’t want that many followers? Let me tell you. That’s how many page views there were at REALTOR.ca last year, and that’s 121 million visitors and a half-billion visits. No wonder REALTOR.ca is the number one real estate platform in Canada. Now, back to Shannae Ingleton Smith of Kensington Grey, talking the birth, growth and power of the digital.

Now that people know what an influencer is and is not, when did businesses start seeing the value of influencers as a part of a buyable social media strategy, that it wasn’t just kids doing amazing dance numbers in their basements? When did that evolution begin?

Shannae: The power of digital, I think, has been happening since the early 2000s, but I think that it really, really blew up around 2013- the early 2010s, like 2012, 2013, 2014, where companies that couldn’t afford to spend a million dollars on a spot in the Super Bowl, or to buy a page in the Toronto Star
for $75,000, they’re like, where else could I put my money? They’re putting it into social media, and they were seeing real results, seeing better results, in fact, than using some traditional media sources like newspaper or magazine or sometimes radio. I think that once they started seeing the results, they just kept on coming back, and they haven’t looked back since.

Erin: Why should those who are on the fence make the leap? Why, do you think? What would you say to those who are still saying, “I don’t know. I’m not sure because I’ve always done it this way”?

Shannae: I think you have to go where people’s attentions are. If you want to get people’s attention, look at where their attentions are right now. It’s in their phone, it’s on their laptop, it’s on their screens. People are using traditional media as a source of their news information and purchasing decisions less and less. Traditional media is losing relevance by the day, and social media is honestly gaining relevance by the day as the source for that. You have to just get with the program or you’ll be at a significant disadvantage as a business owner, I would say.

Erin: Yes, and influencers now have this down to a science. Because we all know that social media is a powerful tool for finding and building a community of brand loyalists. Can you explain the pros and cons of targeting a niche audience as opposed to casting that wide net, taking out that full-page ad, or trying to get on the evening news in the middle of a newscast and having your ad in there or something, when niching down, if you will, is valuable?

Shannae: Niching down is valuable because you’re speaking to your people. You’re speaking to people who are almost a complete and perfect alignment with the service or the products that you have to offer. There’s very little wastage, if you will, when the people that are seeing your content, especially with platforms on social media like TikTok, where the algorithm is so, so smart that it connects you with people who have a specific interest with the exact things that you’re talking about. You find your people, you find your community, you find your target audience a lot faster, and you’re able to get to your goal that you’re trying to achieve a lot faster as well.

Erin: Okay, you brought up TikTok. Now, I want to talk to you as would-be-influencer me to influencer you. In total, I’ve got about 100,000 followers on various platforms, but I’ll tell you that TikTok is the one that gets the least of my attention. You’ve just opened my eyes to something that I didn’t know, Shannae, and maybe for people listening today too. That even if you only have followers numbering in the hundreds on TikTok as opposed to, say, I have 30,000 or whatever on Twitter, that if I put out stuff, TikTok is going to get it to the right people, instead of trying to build up all of those followers right out of the gate. Am I hearing this right?

Shannae: You are hearing me correctly. TikTok is an app that is built for discoverability. Most of the people that see your content are actually people that don’t follow you. It’s people that find you on the For You page because you’re talking about things that interest them, or that they’ve searched before or that they’ve talked about before. The algorithm is extremely sophisticated, more sophisticated than any other social media platform that I’ve ever seen before. That’s why it’s so easy for people to just literally sign up for the app and within, honestly, a few months, gain tens of thousands, sometimes even hundreds of thousands of followers because the algorithm finds your people so fast and with almost expert precision.

Erin: Wow, that’s amazing. Thank you for that. Hopefully, a light went on for a lot of people here. Again, what I’ve learned from you just partway through our talk today, Shannae, is that you don’t have to be dressing up and doing musical numbers or doing a tutorial on makeup or anything like that. It doesn’t have to be that. Again, although TikTok has a reputation for being flashy and fun and really sticky, in terms of content, it’s again down to authenticity. Sure, there’s the flash and the fun, but authenticity works on that platform too. Is that what I’m hearing?

Shannae: Yes, there’s definitely something for everyone. It’s not like the previous platforms where you have to- like it’s a struggle to find followers and to be discovered. The velocity in which you can grow on TikTok is way faster than any other platform right now. It’s because you just show up as yourself, then people that are interested in you and are like-minded will find you because most of the people that see your content are people that do not follow you. That’s what makes the app so exciting.

Erin: When we return, how you can find your niche, and then dive right in and really touch your followers where they live, sometimes literally. Not all influencers are selling, just like you should be doing, about the good works you take part in in your community. Share your stories and use the #REALTORSCare, and let everybody know about your good works, great causes and you. Now, back to REAL TIME and Shannae Ingleton Smith.

Okay, so how do you think that a REALTOR®
can find their niche and use that knowledge to grow their business, Shannae?

Shannae: Depending on whatever it is that you specialize in, whether it’s the luxury space or the first-time homebuyer space, think about what that client would want to know more about and just talk about those things. By doing that, you’re providing value for that specific audience. If it’s like the first-time homebuyer space, maybe you can talk about some of the tax benefits that they can take advantage of when buying a first-time home, or different hacks on how to save for a down payment. Things of that nature. You can talk about interest rates.

If you are focused in the luxury space, then maybe you can talk about more luxury or first-world problems, if you will. You can talk about homes with a wow factor. You can talk about the things that people that are in that spending bracket would be interested in. Then as a result of that, you’ll attract people that could potentially be clients of yours down the line.

Erin: Really, amplify your strengths and share the messages that you have learned and all of your wisdom. Do people ever worry about other people taking their ideas, though, Shannae? That must happen all the time on social media, right? If you’ve got, say, a REALTOR® who’s got a TikTok channel that’s all about those luxury houses, the one that’s got the ice cream maker in the bedroom and that sort of thing, and yes, that exists, I’d be afraid if I did something like that on my account, somebody might borrow that idea. What do you think of that?

Shannae: I think that there are very few things that are truly, truly original anymore, and I think that there’s a lot of people repurposing and doing things in their own way. However, one thing about TikTok is they’re big on accountability. They’re big on giving credit. If you are outright copying word for word, bar for bar what another REALTOR® is doing or what another person on TikTok is doing, the TikTok community will find you and they will call you out.

Like you said earlier, it takes a lifetime to build a reputation but a moment to lose it. If you’re doing things that call your integrity into question, like copying, or things that are unethical like not giving credit where credit is due, or not giving inspiration credit if you were inspired by somebody else’s content, then you’ll find yourself in hot water, and then you will lose that trust from your audience that is highly coveted and so hard to build. If you’re inspired by another REALTOR®, if you’re inspired by somebody else’s content, just say that. You can say, “Hey, I saw this on so-and-so’s page the other day. I loved what he was doing. This is my take on the same issue.”

Yes, definitely don’t try and pass off somebody else’s work or somebody else’s ideas as your own. Give credit where credit is due. Then when you are inspired by somebody else, try to find a way to make it into your own. There’s really only one you, and that’s always going to be your superpower and lean into that as much as you can.

Erin: That’s fantastic. I think that maybe you just allayed a whole bunch of fears that people have had about, “Well, there’s so many people out there on these platforms, what do I have new to offer?” You have you to offer, and that is a really important message. Thank you for that. Now, Shannae, do you have any specific platforms that you prefer for different messaging? I’ll go back to myself as an example here. I’ll put some of my content on Facebook and Instagram, others on TikTok and Twitter. How do you decide where best to reach your target audience, or is it more of a touch-them-all kind of approach?

Shannae: Yes, so I would say that Instagram is like the aesthetic, perfect, pristine app where that’s where you can share the photos, that’s where you can show the final product. Then TikTok is more the unfinished, how I got there. Maybe some of the behind the scenes, or some of just a few snippets and tidbits from your day can be on TikTok because it’s short form, it’s video, it’s casual, it’s a little bit more organic.

Then YouTube, for example, would be the deep dive like, “This is how I did it, this is every step that I took, this is the blueprint,” where you can really take a deep dive and just really delve into your content. Then I would say things like Twitter and Facebook, you can use those to drive to those other three major platforms, and to just bring awareness and to circle your followers back to those other platforms so that they can check that other content out.

Erin: Nobody knows your brand better than yourself, and it comes back to the authenticity and what we’ve discussed about the wisdom and experience and the schools of hard knocks that everybody has been through. This is especially true for entrepreneurs like REALTORS®. Shannae, how do you balance creating your own content versus outsourcing it to digital content creators? A lot of people might be intimidated not knowing even how to use iMovie in their iPhone, or whatever other programs that are so easily downloaded and worked with now. How do you balance that, creating versus outsourcing?

Shannae: Yes. I would say, well, first of all, do the things that bring you joy. If recording and talking to the camera, if you love that and that brings you joy, definitely do that. If you’re not a fan of editing, then find an editor. Find somebody who can edit and chop and mix your stuff together in a way that’s compelling and entertaining. If you prefer to be behind the camera, maybe some other members of your team prefer to be in front of the camera, and you can be the person that films and maybe edits behind the scene.

Another thing that I think that has really helped me is I try to document as much as possible as opposed to creating. I try to be the content and not orchestrate the content, if you will. If I’m already going on about my day, if I’m already doing things, I can just put an iPhone on a tripod and record that. These are things that I would be doing anyway. As opposed to just creating and the kind of orchestrating something that isn’t real, it’s just better to document it or have somebody from your team document you doing something that you would already be doing anyway.

Whether that’s a house tour, have somebody record you doing a house tour. Maybe it’s you sourcing a new neighborhood or sourcing a new client or whatever, you can get those people to capture that behind the scenes, and then you can pull anecdotes from that or pull little clips from that and then just post it up on your social media. Try to document instead of creating as much as possible.

Erin: Document instead of creating. Again, that’s more organic, it’s more natural, it’s more authentic, and there’s always editing. We all think we have to be perfect, and sometimes it’s the outtakes that are the most memorable and the most real anyway.

Shannae: That’s true.

Erin: It’s sometimes hard to share them, but they’re memorable.

Shannae: Yes, and sometimes if it’s scary or hard to share, some of the times that’s your best content and your best performing content. Don’t be afraid to take risks every once in a while. Everything doesn’t have to be always perfect.

Erin: That’s true. I will add what my broadcasting guru told me, and she still talks to broadcasters and podcasters around the world, “Be personal, but don’t be private.” There is a fine line, and you want to go personal, but you always have to respect that privacy that might make people go, “I really didn’t need to know that.”

Something that you’ve said too that really connected in your message to us, Shannae, is that the comments, what people have to say about what you’re putting out there, your content, that can sometimes tell you when you’re going in the right direction or maybe where you should take a bit of a U-turn or a detour.

Shannae: Yes. What we always like to say to our creators is the tea is always in the comments. That will send you in the right direction, that will tell you what you should do next. That will give you ideas for your next video or for your next post because your community will tell you what they want, and pay attention to your comments. It’s almost like crowdsourcing for free or doing market research for free.

Erin: Yes, absolutely. Coming up, Shannae Ingleton Smith of Kensington Grey talks about finding the right influencers to help you reach your target audience. #helpfuladvice. Whether you’re looking to open up shop in Sherbrooke, or peruse palaces in London, Ontario, of course, you can find just what your heart desires on REALTOR.ca. Oh, and while you’re there, open the tab and visit Living Room Blog to read stuff like the most googled questions about real estate answered by REALTORS®, plus idea-sparking topics like optimizing space in your galley kitchen. Okay, you could be there for a while and that’s all right. Kick back in the Living Room Blog section of REALTOR.ca. Now, we’re back to Shannae Ingleton Smith on REAL TIME.

Okay, so say I want to find somebody to champion my brand, and if I didn’t think it was me, how do you go about finding, Shannae, the right personalities to champion your brand? Where would you begin?

Shannae: I would say that you can start by just going on Instagram or TikTok and going through hashtags that are relevant to your niche, and look for the people that are showing up at the top of those hashtags or reoccurring often in those hashtags and then reach out to them. You can also utilize an agency like a Kensington Grey who represents influencers. You can ask them, “Hey, do you have somebody that likes to talk about this, or do you have somebody that is an expert in that?” Then they’ll find somebody or source that person for you, but you can definitely search.

Especially the searchability on platforms like Facebook, on even LinkedIn, on TikTok are superior. The searchability is really sophisticated there. Then on Instagram, it’s a little bit harder, but you can also use hashtags on Instagram to just find people who are experts, or who continue to pop up or end up being at the top of those hashtags.

Erin: How does one usually expect to pay an influencer who is not themselves– If you want to hire somebody, do you pay by clicks and views, or is there a set rate, or generally speaking, how does it work?

Shannae: Typically, influencers don’t do a lot for free anymore. In the very beginning, people were just happy to be asked to endorse things, and a lot of people would just do things on barter. Now, for the most part, influencers do expect to be paid. It’s different depending on who the influencer is, it’s different depending on what your budget is and the relationship you have with them, but it varies.

The general rule, I would say, is that for a post, influencers are typically paid between 3% and 5% of their following per post. Sometimes it’s more if it’s super niche, or if they have extremely high engagement. Then sometimes it’s super less if it’s not as niche, or if the client’s budget just doesn’t permit.

Erin: Interesting. Now, what else should you consider when you’re planning, researching and executing an influencer strategy? Because I think a lot of people listening right now are probably getting kind of excited about this whole idea and going, “Yes, okay, I can try this. I can do this. I don’t have to orchestrate. I can just create. I can be myself and see what comes of it.” What else should you consider when you’re doing this?

Shannae: Well, I think that you want to figure out, what is the goal here? Is the goal to sell houses? Is your goal to bring in potential home buyers or home sellers? Is the goal to just raise awareness or build your profile? When you’re sourcing creators, you want to find people that have a true and genuine connection to the content and the topic that you are talking about.

You want to source creators that have a true passion for and understanding of real estate or of the neighborhood that you’re selling a home in or that you are focused on so that it’s authentic and it doesn’t feel forced. You want people that feel natural in front of the camera, where when you watch one of their videos, you feel like you’re just talking to a friend on FaceTime. You want somebody who’s just going to make you feel comfortable, somebody who you feel like you’re just out having a drink with. I think that those are the best ways of connecting, and yes, just making sure that it’s just authentic.

Erin: Yes, we are hearing that word a lot today and for very good reason. We hear the word authenticity all the time really when it comes to brand storytelling. How do we ensure then that paid partnerships remain authentic?

Shannae: I think that the best way to ensure that paid partnerships remain authentic is to only take partnerships for brands that you would be talking about organically. If you already love Home Depot and you go to Home Depot all the time, or you love Canadian Tire and you use Canadian Tire for everything and you tell your friends about it, then it’s a natural fit if you work with that brand in a paid partnership. It’s just almost like you’re talking organically about it, but in this case, you’re being paid, but it seems true, it seems authentic.

Don’t talk about things that feel forced or that you don’t really use because then you lose credibility. People are really smart. Don’t underestimate the intelligence of your community and the audience that’s watching. They know when they’re being bamboozled, and they tune out and unfollow when those things happen. It’s never worth it just trying to make a quick buck by touting a brand or service or product that you don’t really care about or use in real life.

Erin: This wouldn’t apply to REALTORS®, especially the ones doing their own social media, but I’m sure that there are personalities who are known for plugging like 40 items. It’s like, “Oh, okay, there she is again, and this time it’s Jell-O, and yesterday it was something else.” Yes, we can all have diverse interests and things in our lives, and we may love Jell-O, and Pepsi, and Canadian Tire, but sometimes I think that you can risk being overexposed. I’m sure you tell your clients that too, right?

Shannae: Yes, that’s correct.

Erin: Yes. I mean, it’s a good problem to have.

Shannae: I guess it can be, but it depends on whether you want longevity. I think that saying no to things, that there’s power in saying no, and just really staying truthful and aligned with your ethos, and then just moving forward with the things that align with your brand best. You don’t have to take everything.

Erin: That’s right. If REALTORS® are interested in integrating influencers into their marketing strategies, tell us where you think is a good place to start, Shannae?

Shannae: I truly believe that you’re your best influencer, so don’t be afraid to show up on camera, or even if you’re not showing up face forward on the camera, don’t be afraid to start posting things and posting maybe some of the properties that you are selling, or sharing some of your expertise, whether it just be by audio or with photos, and just talking and sharing your knowledge so that you can connect with the right people.

If you are looking to connect with influencers, I would definitely say you can definitely go through an agency, but you can also just connect with people by social media and start following them. Send them a message if you think that there might be an opportunity for you to work together. Reach out to them and send an email. In most cases, people’s contact information are available in their bio.

I think that you miss all the shots that you don’t take, so just try check it out. In real estate, people that are in real estate are great at sales. It’s almost like door knocking but virtual. Don’t be afraid to knock on a few doors and ask and put out some feelers to figure out how you might be able to work with somebody, or whether they might want to work for you in a social media capacity.

Erin: Okay, let’s look closer to home then, so to speak. What about a client? Do you think a client would be a good storyteller?

Shannae: Yes, I think a client would be a great storyteller if they have a testimonial, or if they have a positive experience that they want to tell. There’s nothing better than word-of-mouth marketing. If you have a client that’s willing to share a positive experience, that is worth its weight in gold for sure. Yes, absolutely.

Erin: Most people don’t feel truly comfortable performing to a camera or to even if it’s just a phone or whatever too, so you’ve got to be judicious, don’t you? Because you want it to be authentic, and not like somebody is sitting there like a deer in headlights answering your questions. I think that something we could come back to, and if you haven’t emphasized it already, then maybe it’s worth mentioning too, again, you can always edit and maybe be a little judicious with your editing. Should you show your content to somebody else before you put it out there into the world, Shannae?

Shannae: Yes. I feel like most content should get a run-through in the group chat first. A lot of my content gets sent to my girlfriends’ group chat before I post it, just to make sure that there isn’t anything that I’m saying that is incorrect or inaccurate, or that there isn’t a stain on my shirt or whatever. The same thing applies with social media. Just run it by somebody that you trust just to make sure that you’re putting something out there that makes sense.

Just tying back to your question previously about, do you use a client? If you have a client that doesn’t feel comfortable speaking on camera or going online and sharing a testimonial, sometimes your work just speaks for itself. Maybe it’s like a two-part series where you’re talking about this home that you’ve listed, and then part two or the follow-up is that you’re sharing that the home has been sold.

People don’t always have to know the story or the person behind who owns the home or who the client is because people obviously value their privacy, but there are so many other ways that you can be your own cheerleader and share your successes and share how well you’re doing as a real estate agent in a way that will attract new clients, more clients and more business to you and your platforms.

Erin: Well, it’s certainly been eye-opening and so encouraging and just, oh, the sparks of inspiration from talking with you today, Shannae, it has been a real pleasure. Thank you, and continued success to you and Kensington Grey. Thanks again for taking the time to talk.

Shannae: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Erin: And we appreciate you listening to the podcast for Canadian REALTORS®, discussing issues that affect you and can help enrich not just your business, but your life. Make sure to subscribe and follow so you don’t miss one episode of REAL TIME. If you’ve got time, why not go for a deep dive? From designing women, to ad gurus, thinking green, and shedding light on human rights, the resources you need are right here on REAL TIME. This show is produced by Alphabet® Creative. Rob Whitehead of Real Family Productions is on the tech side, and I’m your host, Erin Davis. We can’t wait to talk to you next time on REAL TIME.

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